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	<title>Comments on: A Greater Freedom &#8211; Sex and Love for Real</title>
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	<link>http://hopeitis.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/</link>
	<description>Always be prepared to make a defense ... for the hope that is within you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence (1 Peter 3:15)</description>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://hopeitis.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 04:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hopeitis.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-97</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The opening scene from Monty Python&#039;s &quot;The Meaning of Life&quot; is certainly something I&#039;ve seen more than once, and laughed my butt off - but the truth is that was mostly before I understood a bit more.

Still a funny Python skit, I suppose - but I don&#039;t laugh quite so much anymore. Mostly because it misses the point and satirizes something other than what the Church teaches, but probably more because there is so much at stake here.

They&#039;re making fun of something they fundamentally don&#039;t understand.

On the other hand, there&#039;s always the Black Knight in the Woods ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The opening scene from Monty Python&#8217;s &#8220;The Meaning of Life&#8221; is certainly something I&#8217;ve seen more than once, and laughed my butt off &#8211; but the truth is that was mostly before I understood a bit more.</p>
<p>Still a funny Python skit, I suppose &#8211; but I don&#8217;t laugh quite so much anymore. Mostly because it misses the point and satirizes something other than what the Church teaches, but probably more because there is so much at stake here.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re making fun of something they fundamentally don&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there&#8217;s always the Black Knight in the Woods &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://hopeitis.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hopeitis.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-93</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree one-billion percent that marriage is hard, and will almost certainly be extraordinarily hard at times. At one of kid&#039;s wedding (Jen &amp; Tony) Fr. Vowels said something that really stuck with me (and this is a very rough paraphrase): 
&lt;blockquote&gt;marriage isn&#039;t a sacrament to celebrate what already took place, it&#039;s a sacrament to make marriage even possible at all (through the inevitable difficulties).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have also seen too many times emphasis is placed on duties, often disproportionate to the wife. That stinks.

The real key is to view marriage as &lt;b&gt;mutual&lt;/b&gt; self-donation - yes there are different roles, but the cost is the same - 100%. Eveything. Todo. All you got. Nothing left. 

Of course &quot;the marital embrace&quot; is fun - as it was designed to and absolutely should be! Yes a couple can and should enjoy each other physically and emotionally - but even better each should provide that enjoyment to the other ...

The problems in marriage will most definitely come, yet ... it&#039;s precisely in those hard times that we have a chance to really learn dependence on God, and that is where we will begin to experience lasting, authentic joy.

I hear what you think about NFP, but let me gently suggest that the real purpose is to learn total dependence on God and each other, in the most intimate and durable part of our lives. NFP should be about neither guilt nor worship, but intimacy with each other and with God.

As for why this whole area is emphasized, I can offer a couple of reasons (this is only my perspective - nothing more). 

First, it is absolutely the only opportunity that we have in our entire lives to cooperate with God directly and bring a new life, a new eternal soul into existence. Think about it: each new person is someone who not only did not exist before, but will be able to live beyond the end of time itself! 

Absolutely nothing else we do can endure like that. In fact, very little we do will even endure to the end of our own lives, much less a few years beyond.

The only things that outlast time are people - so by that measure it&#039;s the stuff that we do to help people attain salvation (which starts with coming into existence) that really matter.

Second, this whole area of life (from the creation of new people, to the murder of innocents, to the dignified death of the very sick and elderly) is probably where we (humans) have taken the most damage from the other side - and it&#039;s way past time to take a stand.

At any rate, sex as intended - husband and wife, open to life, God has the final say - will be not only guilt-free, fun, promote intimacy, encourage the spouses, and solidify a marriage against all challenges to come, it will also bring the couple each closer to God for that moment when life ends ... and yes, God willing it will occasionally result in the most awesome event imaginable - a new life!

Anyhow, thanks again for explaining your concerns - I appreciate the discussion. I&#039;m sure that I&#039;m missing much of what you&#039;re thinking, so thanks for your patience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree one-billion percent that marriage is hard, and will almost certainly be extraordinarily hard at times. At one of kid&#8217;s wedding (Jen &amp; Tony) Fr. Vowels said something that really stuck with me (and this is a very rough paraphrase): </p>
<blockquote><p>marriage isn&#8217;t a sacrament to celebrate what already took place, it&#8217;s a sacrament to make marriage even possible at all (through the inevitable difficulties).</p></blockquote>
<p>I have also seen too many times emphasis is placed on duties, often disproportionate to the wife. That stinks.</p>
<p>The real key is to view marriage as <b>mutual</b> self-donation &#8211; yes there are different roles, but the cost is the same &#8211; 100%. Eveything. Todo. All you got. Nothing left. </p>
<p>Of course &#8220;the marital embrace&#8221; is fun &#8211; as it was designed to and absolutely should be! Yes a couple can and should enjoy each other physically and emotionally &#8211; but even better each should provide that enjoyment to the other &#8230;</p>
<p>The problems in marriage will most definitely come, yet &#8230; it&#8217;s precisely in those hard times that we have a chance to really learn dependence on God, and that is where we will begin to experience lasting, authentic joy.</p>
<p>I hear what you think about NFP, but let me gently suggest that the real purpose is to learn total dependence on God and each other, in the most intimate and durable part of our lives. NFP should be about neither guilt nor worship, but intimacy with each other and with God.</p>
<p>As for why this whole area is emphasized, I can offer a couple of reasons (this is only my perspective &#8211; nothing more). </p>
<p>First, it is absolutely the only opportunity that we have in our entire lives to cooperate with God directly and bring a new life, a new eternal soul into existence. Think about it: each new person is someone who not only did not exist before, but will be able to live beyond the end of time itself! </p>
<p>Absolutely nothing else we do can endure like that. In fact, very little we do will even endure to the end of our own lives, much less a few years beyond.</p>
<p>The only things that outlast time are people &#8211; so by that measure it&#8217;s the stuff that we do to help people attain salvation (which starts with coming into existence) that really matter.</p>
<p>Second, this whole area of life (from the creation of new people, to the murder of innocents, to the dignified death of the very sick and elderly) is probably where we (humans) have taken the most damage from the other side &#8211; and it&#8217;s way past time to take a stand.</p>
<p>At any rate, sex as intended &#8211; husband and wife, open to life, God has the final say &#8211; will be not only guilt-free, fun, promote intimacy, encourage the spouses, and solidify a marriage against all challenges to come, it will also bring the couple each closer to God for that moment when life ends &#8230; and yes, God willing it will occasionally result in the most awesome event imaginable &#8211; a new life!</p>
<p>Anyhow, thanks again for explaining your concerns &#8211; I appreciate the discussion. I&#8217;m sure that I&#8217;m missing much of what you&#8217;re thinking, so thanks for your patience.</p>
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		<title>By: Arlo</title>
		<link>http://hopeitis.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arlo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hopeitis.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-92</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, it&#039;s late, I&#039;m tired and I don&#039;t want to write a thesis, but a couple of thoughts...

I get the argument that sex outside of its natural state guts the act, takes away God&#039;s revelation and puts the focus on self satisfaction.  I just think the argument is thin.  Sex is not just about procreation.  It&#039;s about a couple enjoying each other physically and emotionally.  It can be a deep bonding experience.  Introducing the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy doesn&#039;t create reverence.  It creates fear and anxiety.  Reverence for the act is expressed through love and faithfulness.

But, let me talk about the practicalities.  Marriage is hard.  It&#039;s really hard.  Life is short.  Sex is fun and scientifically proven to be healthy to a couple both emotionally and physically.  I&#039;ve heard plenty within the Christian movement about women submitting to their husbands.  Little emphasis is placed on helping women to actually enjoy the act and plenty is put on marital duties and obligations.  It creates dysfunction, shame and ultimately dissatisfaction within the marriage.  Women are taught to go along, but hate it and resent it.

But I think the argument is undermined altogether by NFP.  NFP&#039;s goal is simple: recreational sex.  It&#039;s about having sex for pleasure, not for procreation.  Leaving the possibility of getting pregnant (although nfp is supposed to make this possibility as remote as possible) feels more like an act of guilt than worship.  

I&#039;m trying to understand why sex in particular gets this treatment and not the many other ways we could keep life in its natural state.  There are a lot of hang ups about sex, like guilt over liking it.  I suppose that&#039;s why we&#039;re cautioned about how we view it.  Like it, but don&#039;t lose perspective.  

Faithfulness, love, marriage.  That&#039;s perspective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s late, I&#8217;m tired and I don&#8217;t want to write a thesis, but a couple of thoughts&#8230;</p>
<p>I get the argument that sex outside of its natural state guts the act, takes away God&#8217;s revelation and puts the focus on self satisfaction.  I just think the argument is thin.  Sex is not just about procreation.  It&#8217;s about a couple enjoying each other physically and emotionally.  It can be a deep bonding experience.  Introducing the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy doesn&#8217;t create reverence.  It creates fear and anxiety.  Reverence for the act is expressed through love and faithfulness.</p>
<p>But, let me talk about the practicalities.  Marriage is hard.  It&#8217;s really hard.  Life is short.  Sex is fun and scientifically proven to be healthy to a couple both emotionally and physically.  I&#8217;ve heard plenty within the Christian movement about women submitting to their husbands.  Little emphasis is placed on helping women to actually enjoy the act and plenty is put on marital duties and obligations.  It creates dysfunction, shame and ultimately dissatisfaction within the marriage.  Women are taught to go along, but hate it and resent it.</p>
<p>But I think the argument is undermined altogether by NFP.  NFP&#8217;s goal is simple: recreational sex.  It&#8217;s about having sex for pleasure, not for procreation.  Leaving the possibility of getting pregnant (although nfp is supposed to make this possibility as remote as possible) feels more like an act of guilt than worship.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to understand why sex in particular gets this treatment and not the many other ways we could keep life in its natural state.  There are a lot of hang ups about sex, like guilt over liking it.  I suppose that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re cautioned about how we view it.  Like it, but don&#8217;t lose perspective.  </p>
<p>Faithfulness, love, marriage.  That&#8217;s perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: gabe</title>
		<link>http://hopeitis.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gabe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hopeitis.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/a-greater-freedom-sex-and-love-for-real/#comment-91</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[good post]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good post</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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